Has the Palm Pre already beaten the iPhone?

The Palm Pre is a tad young to threaten the established and massively popular iPhone. But some Silicon Valley developers are saying the Pre’s operating system is far better to develop on.

If that’s true, it raises significant questions about the balance of power in the sexy smart phone industry. Palm may soon draw scrutiny from bigger players. Already, analyst Ashok Kumar has stirred the market, suggesting Dell should buy it (Dell’s stock price even dropped on the recommendation).

So far, the iPhone has had a vice-like grip on developers, because it’s been so fun to develop on. Developers can build awesome looking applications, with few barriers. With developers flocking to it, the iPhone is brimming with applications — all of which has driven sales of more than 40 million iPhones and iPod Touches.

But during a dinner conversation organized by VentureBeat last night at Blue Run Ventures in Menlo Park, Calif., developer Christian Sepulveda of Pivotal Labs said that has changed. Sepulveda (pictured below), whose group builds applications for companies wanting mobile offerings, said he’s advising his clients — Twitter, BestBuy and Salesforce among them — to start on the Pre. The phone’s operating system, called WebOS, offers the most compelling place to build and test a prototype, for both cost and technology reasons, he said.

Pivotal does not have a business relationship with Palm, he told us last night. So Sepulveda’s comments appear to be objective. Pivotal is also well regarded. It was the firm that Twitter called in to help it manage its Web offering, after high traffic growth kept crashing Twitter’s site.

Clearly, the Palm Pre is so new on the market, and so few phones have been sold, that developers would be crazy if they developed for WebOS and didn’t try to get distribution on other phones, such as the iPhone. But because WebOS is the easiest platform to build, test, review and iterate on, most developers can then port their work over to other phones where more attention can be put into making it work for that particular device, he said.

Of course, with 50,000 apps built on the iPhone in little more than a year, it’s clear that the Apple iPhone platform is compelling for developers. But for a while, Apple had the developer world to itself. Many developers fell in love with the slick iPhone user interface and accompanying applications, because it was their first love. But they may be overlooking the time it’s taking them to create applications. They’re taking all night to work in Objective C, the Apple iPhone framework, when they should really only need a half-hour to do the same on WebOS, Sepulveda said. A very high number of iPhone applications then crash at launch, or stall while running, meaning the cost of development on the iPhone is not well understood. For efficiency reasons alone, the WebOS makes sense. RIM, the other popular phone platform, has multiple phones, each with its own flavor. Google’s Android, meanwhile, has been gunning for the role that Sepulevda says Palm’s WebOs has taken. In April, Android co-founder Rich Miner argued Android was the best paltform to build and iterate on because of its more open operating platform.

However, Sepulveda says WebOS is much easier for most up-and-coming developers than Android because its core elements — Javascript, HTML and CSS — are better understood by them. Android is based on Java, which is a language known by lots of developers, but it’s also a beast to grasp. You can have a developer working on web work in Java, another working on middleware in Java, and another on the desktop in Java, but none of them have the knowledge to be effective in each of the other areas. Android has a clear vision, but its framework is still a challenge for most developers to get their head around. It’s easier than working on the iPhone or for RIM’s Blackberry platform, but Pivotal is finding that most of its developers ramped up much more easily on Palm’s WebOS. Another reason is that WebOS comes bundled with things like Prototype, a very popular javascript library that many developers already know. For agile, quick turnaround developers, WebOS is turning out to be a no-brainer.

Finally, the average WebOS application codebase tends to be around 75 percent contained in the application itself, with only 25 percent or so dependent on the framework needed for the particular phone. That makes the codebase easy to transfer to other platforms, where less work needs to be done to code the application for other phones. Clearly, that percentage varies widely, depending on the specific app. For example, if you want to build a mobile application that helps you get around the London Tube system, you’ll want that app to be able to run almost entirely on the device itself, with almost no reliance on the Web at all — because you’ll be underground, where accessing the Web is difficult. So much work is required to tailor the app to specific phones, you’d want to start building that app on the phone with the widest distribution.

We held last night’s dinner to brainstorm our MobileBeat 2009 mobile event agenda. Several of the other attendees, who included mobile investors, executives, and consultants, challenged Sepulveda on his argument. The massive distribution of the iPhone, and easy way to buy apps, make it a much better place for developers to start if they want to make money right away, they said. Famed game developer Trip Hawkins said recently he can sell more copies of a game on an iPhone than he can with a 100 other handsets. That’s because the iPhone App store has trained iPhone users to buy things easily — through their iTunes account. Sepulveda acknowledged this, and said that a developer’s strategy on what platform to choose varies depending on specific goals. However, he then listed another reason why a developer should work with the Pre: The iPhone has 50,000 applications, and it’s hard for any one of them to get attention. With Palm’s Pre, there are only 25 or so applications — it’s a great time to go early with WebOS and get lots of exposure.

In conclusion, Palm’s platform looks really cool. But the burden is on Palm to prove to a majority of developers that they’ll get a payback if they shoot for Palm first, since clearly they’ll be giving up lots by getting to the iPhone or others later.

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  • Had_to
    vise-like grip.
  • His points are valid. Phones should use web technologies, and, although google advocates it, android does not offer a 'web based' framework to build apps on. There are projects like Phonegap (http://phonegap.com) that do just that: allow you to build conventional HTML based apps on iPhone or Android that can make use of all the phones capabilities.
  • My prediction is that Palm will displace RIM/Blackberry and Apple in the smartphone market in the next 3 years. WebOS and the Pre are one revolutionary generation in front of both.
  • Aaron
    "You can have a developer working on web work in Java, another working on middleware in Java, and another on the desktop in Java, but none of them have the knowledge to be effective in each of the other areas."

    That is an absolutely ridiculous statement. If your java developer can't be effective in all of these area, you hired a shitty java developer.


    "However, Sepulveda says WebOS is much easier for most up-and-coming developers than Android because its core elements — Javascript, HTML and CSS — are better understood by them. Android is based on Java, which is a language known by lots of developers, but it’s also a beast to grasp."

    Absurd as well. Java is far easier to program with than using JS/HTML/CSS.
  • Ryan
    Why do you think so many people go with PHP over Java for web development?
  • Aaron
    PHP is much more designed for rendering HTML, JS, and CSS. In other words it ties into (required) client technologies better.

    That being said, I see no reason a new web developer should learn php. Ruby or python (esp. with a good framework) are much better choices
  • Aaron
    In other words, the reason for PHP is solely because it is easier to render client pages with it. It does NOT mean that a phone should be using client technologies as opposed to, say, java or .NET
  • Yes it's easier but it's not even close to as capable.

    The phone isn't much more than a souped up web browser.

    So no, it's not going to touch the iPhone except in apps that are just connections into a web presence.

    It may catch up to Apple on this but it will take a long time to see that happen.

    Because the smart phone is now just a mobile computer, I think the players will be Microsoft, Apple, and Google (representing Linux). Apple has a good head start and Microsoft is severely lagging. Google is accelerating and may get enough momentum to take the lead....but I wouldn't bet on it.

    The phones are each sticky, meaning users will be resistant to jumping camps so at least for now Apple's early lead is a huge advantage....but they were in the boat with early Apple II's years ago and they blew it. If they look hard at why they blew it...they might figure out a way to keep history from repeating.
  • These things always come down to the ecosystem and SDK. If Pre can show how they make it easy for the pre-existing web developers not to have to learn a new methodology to be mobile broadband ready (while getting full benefits of marketplace, distribution, e-wallet), then they have a chance, as there are a lot of LAMP types that are sitting on the sidelines wrt mobile because they don't want to learn another methodology.

    Now obviously they face a tremendous chicken/egg wrt attracting both consumers and developers, since consumers now see this as an apps play, and all of the apps are on iPhone. Plus, apps developers can develop and reach a footprint of 40M iPhone/iPod touch devices, which is pretty darn compelling.

    Either way, it is not a foregone conclusion of zero sum, save for skepticism that RIM can penetrate consumer base at this level (disclaimer: I am a happy BB owner and iPod touch owner) and questions whether Java will be an Achilles heel for Android.

    I would say that as a Ruby on Rails shop, it is unsurprising that Pivotal Labs sees Pre/WebOS as the preferred development model.

    Some fodder on Apple Worldwide Developer Conference this week, which provides relativity to this topic can be found here:

    Apple WWDC Keynote Analysis: Punishing the Wizard, Part Two
    http://bit.ly/2lC3yC

    Check it out if interested.

    Cheers.

    Mark
  • jd
    Developing on the Pre first is just bad advice. Ease of development should be pretty low on the list of factors.
  • Christian Sepulveda
    I think it depends on your goals. Many of the people we meet have an idea, but lack a coherent application definition -- user interaction, details on features, etc.

    It is really useful to be able to iterate and experiment and evolve your application and to discover (t0 a degree) the best user experience for your idea.

    The cost of development is going to either enable or restrict an application's ability to converge on what ultimately succeeds.
  • SU
    Umm... you are making the assumption that "easy development" is the sole thing that will attract developers.

    More important than the ease of development, Apple just announced that their user base for the iPhone/iPod Touch is 40 Million!

    THAT's what attracts developers. Money.

    Not exclusively, but it's huge motivator. How long will it take for the Pre to get a user base that is even a reasonable fraction of that?

    This logical failure just makes the rest of the article look like a Pre puff piece.... oh, perhaps that's what it was.
  • Christian Sepulveda
    I agree the iPhone market attracts developers, but it is hard to stand out in the 50,000 apps in the App Store. So unless the developer has a business model and promotion/marketing plan, it is really hard to make money in the App Store.

    The Palm Pre doesn't need 40 million users to be attractive. For a lot of developers, if they are on the device early, they can accumulate good reviews and lots of downloads early. As the market grows, so does their opportunity to charge or make money via other means.

    I know a variety of iPhone app developers, who were out at launch and established their app early. In those cases, their app continues to make money today. However, some of those same developers released other apps, and they got lost in the noise of the App Store and have not made any real return on those later apps. (As a note, many of their later apps were actually a lot better --- but it was too hard to get anyone to see them.)

    There are hundreds of millions of web users, but how easy is it to make money when you launch a new web app?

    But I think interest in the platform is what drives a lot of developers and it will be a personal preference to develop for iPhone, webOS, Android or Blackberry.
  • Ok first of all - I see all this talk about 'getting lost in the noise'. Well welcome to the real goddamn world. You can't just build something and expect it to do well. Look at Facebook apps. Do most of them gain such a large distribution just because they are great quality? NO. A tremendous amount of resources are put into distribution. yes, on Facebook distribution is more of a mathematical formula as opposed to in the iPhone world - where word of mouth, marketing and publicity play a bigger role. There are many things one must do. One key area that is lacking is marketing for iPhone apps and that's really what developers need to focus on building partnerships for.

    Remember youtube videos and the techcrunch article where the guy talked about how he made youtube videos go viral and that requires a lot of people posting links on forums and what not to reach a critical mass? So yes, social media and WOM and all that can help spread the word of a product thats truly
    remarkable (Seth Godin talks a lot about this) but you need to invest money in distribution - and for iphone thats more of an art compared to Facebook which is more of a science.

    Also what about platforms such as openfeint within iPhone? that might help eh? Palm will never have the community iPhone will.
  • Going by Palm's stock price the Pre is already a winner. As above 40 million iPods/iPod Touches is probably why most developers won't even take a sniff at the Pre. Also, products designed with html/javascript can run and be sold in the iPhone app store.. there's been frameworks for doing that for quite some time. If that's supposed to be what sets the Pre apart for developers... well good luck with that.

    That being said I like the Pre, and there could be some profitable niches to exploit in the Palm's app store.. although the ratio of Pre's/Developers looks like it could be worse than the ratio of iTouch+iPhones/Developers with all the WebOS hoopla.
  • Aaron
    SU/Johann: There are also 20,000 apps. You'll stand out from the crowd much easier if you develop for the Pre
  • SU
    Aaron and Johann,

    Agreed. What's interesting about this article is the direct correlation between developer interest and platform success.

    I don't believe it is anywhere near this simple.

    So yes, being the first to launch an app on Pre would be a good position to be in - at least for the short term. But that is *not* the same thing as the success of the platform in general. There's obviously a connection between customer interest and developer interest. We could also go down the chicken / egg path of arguing which is more important for the success of the platform.

    But I believe that the sheer momentum of the iPhone/Touch market is enough to propel it a long way and will make it very tough for Pre, Android or any other competitor to catch up. Now that Apple has added some significant features and developer candy in iPhone OS 3 I wouldn't want to be backing any other company at this time.

    All the new USB/bluetooth hardware tricks and the trickle / subscription pay models introduced with iPhone 3 are exciting developers at a time that Pre needs to be attracting them.

    I figure that Apple is going to have to go stagnant for a *long* time OR a game-changing technology / paradigm shift will have to show up in order to unseat Apple.

    it's going to be interesting to watch though.
  • Christian Sepulveda
    I agree with much of what you wrote. On your last point though, no one has to unseat Apple to be a success -- it is not zero-sum game.

    Some are predicting the smartphone market, particularly in the US, is growing by as much as 70% this year. (http://www.engadget.com/2009/02/04/phone-shipme...). There is room for many of the platforms to succeed.
  • Aaron
    The android market already has 6,000. apps. Sure most are crap (like the iphone app store), but there are enough in there to do almost everything I want. I imagine Pre will rapidly ramp up on apps as well. The ability to make custom background apps alone should more than justify the lack of hardware tricks.

    I don't see a lack of apps as hurting the other markets (Pre/Android/win mobile). I see only a (perceived) crumminess of the device.
  • Aaron, I believe the number is over 40,000 apps now.
  • slappy
    Pre has a long way to go. After Monday it's 15 min of fame ended.
  • HK
    This is absurd. Since the Pre does not have Java, or C/C++ to write applications, complex applications can not be written. Simple apps can be done quickly, that's about it.

    For example, many of the good games on the iPhone or Android can never be written for the Pre.
  • Derek
    "Android has a clear vision, but its framework is still a challenge for most developers to get their head around. "

    This is a silly statement. Did the author actually talk to any Android developers? I develop for Android and have a friend who develops for iPhone. I can tell you that getting up and running writing native apps with Android is far easier. It was not a challenge to get my head around it.

    As for luring devs with money, Google just announced the second Android Developer Challenge, with something like $2 million in total prize money. That might be enough to lure some devs to the platform.
  • Hi Derek,
    as VB's resident Android fanboy until I met Christian on Thursday I agreed with Rich Miner statement we cited above that "Android is the best platform to build and iterate on". As you also say writing native apps with Android is far easier.

    However, I find in discussions that it is still a minority opinion. That's what Matt's above statement refers to.

    After talking to Christian, who's one of the first developers to comment on his with WebOS, I've got reasons to believe that WebOS has some advantages which make prototyping and testing easier vis-a-vis Android.
  • @HK - I also worry that the upcoming Pre SDK will not allow developers to write close enough to the metal to create sophisticated games or complex applications. It's possible that Palm doesn't see games as important to their target demographic or that they don't want to risk having applications running that can crash the device or put it into a modal state.

    Christian, you mentioned that the smartphone market is expected to grow about 70% this year. I would expect that many of those growth users are not going to be business users and that applications such as games are going to be very, very important to capturing a slice of that market. As a game developer, I would love to see Palm open up the SDK enough to put that nice graphics core to work.

    We have avoided developing for the iPhone because of the poor signal to noise ratio in the app store. Here's are some of the trends we expect to see in regard to iPhone development over the next 12 months.

    1) The downward pressure on App prices and poor ROI in the near term is going to continue the poliferation of "ringtone apps".

    2) Once the ringtone apps stop bringing in any money (if they ever did for most people), the quick-buck developers will leave the platform.

    3) After the ringtone app developers flee the platform, it leaves it open to the more serious development efforts. The problem is that pricing model is heavily tilted toward the very inexpensive or free apps. So, I think it will be very, very hard for developers to charge $30.00 or more on the platform to recover the costs of sophisticated development.

    4) It will be interesting to see what this means for games. Even though platforms like the PSP have a smaller installed base, the consumer has been conditioned to expect higher prices for the experience and you certainly have a more targed demographic. I wouldn't be surprised if the ROI was way better on the PSP/PSP Go in the near future than on the iPhone.

    5) It's possible that micropayments might help recover the cost of development for some games and applications but I still think that's a long shot for the majority of developers.
  • Christian Sepulveda
    I do think many smartphone buyers will be looking for games, but I think many are also looking to "keep connected". They want email, news, twitter, stocks, etc. They want to view their family photos and videos on a good screen.

    For these users, I think Palm has an edge. I one of the crazy people who waited on line for the iPhone launch two years ago, but I have happily given up my iPhone for a Pre. Having multiple applications open makes it easy to quickly check my email, twitter, latest news, etc. I keep Evernote open to capture random thoughts or to-dos.

    I also spend a lot more time with my Pre -- the experience is much stickier whereas the iPhone was get-in and get-out, at least for me.

    On the game question, it will be interesting to see how Palm responds to the soon-to-be gray market; Doom has already been hacked into the Pre.

    I also think all the App Catalog/Store/World/etc are really inefficient, at least right now. Apple, Palm, RIM and Google could do a lot more to help users find the apps they are interested in. The result would be good for everyone -- more sales and happier users. That could also help change the economic incentives for developers.
  • Vance Souders
    I agree that the Pre provides a great experience and the "keep connected" crowd will be hooked once they get a taste of Pre's multitasking.

    The issue I have with the lack of games (and I am certainly biased) is that games move hardware. Even if you don't play games, they give the consumer the impression of a powerful, modern device. Multitasking aside, the average consumer won't be able to tell the difference between a Twitter client on Palm vs Apple, but they will notice the difference between Connect 4 (the only game on the Pre - although I understand more are coming) VS hardware accelerated 3D on the iPhone.

    Also, I would bet that eventually XNA, Windows Mobile 7 and the XBOX ecosystem are going to collide (Late 2010?). The Zune HD is already a very early step in this direction. The clock is seriously ticking and the ball really is in Palm's court. They have a great device, a very compelling platform but we've all seen compelling, sophisticated platforms dissolve right out of the market (Amiga?).

    As for the grey market, my guess is that Palm will ignore it. Unless it becomes very, very easy to modify the device, I think it will represent a very small percentage of the installed base.

    -Vance
  • Danstl
    Well for those who thing the pre is just css/js/html you are wrong. People have already gotten DOOM to run with hardware accel this is a big deal. The initial API will be css/js/html, but they will allow direct hardware APIs. Remember this is just running linux, so there are millions of devs out there with knowledge of the underbelly of the pre.

    Face it, the pre offers a great dev platform for web-scrape apps (most iphone apps) that can be powered by css/js/html - web 2.0 people... Are you living under a rock? Google just announced html5 is the new application platform - the pre is already there...
  • chleoku
    Cool Palm Pre and iphone comparison

    http://www.wealthalchemist.com/Blog/2009/06/pal...
  • slappy
    The Pre has very little to offer to users over the iPhone. Already AT&T is sold out of iPhone 3G S. Just announced today. iPhone just offers much more for users and leads the pack in OS and UI advantages.
  • Benji
    I think this posting is just a bunch of hot air ;) The Pre, like WinMo, will be out in many form factors -- preventing standardization of accessories, etc, that have made iPhones & iPods >the< standard. I doubt we'll be seeing dedicated PalmPorts in cars anytime soon.

    Having pre-ordered a iPhone 3Gs, I'm floored at the wide availability of accessories and addons from my new toy, especially having come from being a longtime WinMo user. A very slick leather case for $14, with free shipping -- comeption is great. I'm used to purchasing a device and hoping it becomes popular enough for stuff to come out for it, and then paying much more that that. As a consumer, I want it all as easy as possible -- and I seem to have stumbled upon just that. As this trend continues, it'll only get better.

    Not that the Palm stuff won't catch on and find a market, but it ain't killin no iPhones :) Android, Windows Mobile, Symbian, Palm and others are pretty much just diluting what's left over...
  • The Palm Pre is such a me-too phone, why not buy the original from Apple with a faster chip

    Chris
    http://worstiphoneapps.blogspot.com
  • Ryan
    Maybe people want to avoid AT&T?
  • remon
    The Pre is just as much a me-too copy of the iPhone as the iPhone is a me-too copy of Windows Mobile.

    Think they really are the same? Try running Pandora while navigating on the iPhone.

    Or try going back to the contact you last worked with after you looked something up on the web.

    These aren't exotic examples of what you might expect to do on a PDA.

    I'm not trying to knock the iPhone. I think it is a great phone. But Apple has some catching up to do with WebOS. The notification feature of the iPhone is not a very good substitute for running multiple apps concurrently.

    All of which is to say: The pre is no me-too phone.
  • Palm WebOS may find competition in #Android Scripting Env supporting Python, Lua, BeanShell (TODO: Ruby & JavaScript). I hope, Groovy too.
  • Sivan
    To the comment about games driving hardware sales: this is an argument that surfaced when PCs were being commoditized a few years ago. By contrast, smartphones can be seen as an extreme form of mobile computing with plenty of innovation ahead to overcome miniaturization, performance and cost challenges.

    I've surveyed the applications I most use on my G1 and could not think of one not suitable for webOS development. The issue of games elludes me as I'm not a gamer, I mostly read and communicate using these devices.

    I do wonder about networking and graphics programming on webOS but, excluding games and VoIP (which carriers resent), how much is left that's not possible in mobile applications?
  • Sivan,

    I really think it's more about perception and how games and other high end software shift that perception of the device. I'm already seeing articles like this one:

    http://www.pcmag.com/article2/0,2817,2348658,00...

    From the article:

    "This is not a subtle distinction, either. Apple has evolved the iPhone in ways that we could not have imagined when it came out two years ago. The new OS 3.0 games are 3D in nature and provide a rich game experience similar to that on a PC. Games on other smartphones are weak by comparison."

    ...

    "It's unfair to Palm to ask whether the Pre is an iPhone killer. In fact, even trying to put it in the same class as the iPhone is dooming it to failure. The Pre and others are excellent smartphones, but they're phones, not PC platforms. "

    Not good. They are basically putting the Pre into the toy category while the iPhone gets put into the pocket computer category. You and I know that both devices have very similar hardware (I believe the CPU and GPU are actually the same or very similar).

    We're going to see more and more of this chasm between full featured desktop class operating systems running on mobile hardware and everyone else. Apple clearly has a desktop OS running at the heart of the iPhone. I don't know enough about Palm's WebOS to know where it falls but the media is starting to make the call based on what they see (or don't see) running on the devices. As an aside, Microsoft is at a cross-roads with Windows Mobile. In my opinion, Microsoft really should move away from a seperate code base and put a trimmed down version of Windows 7 on mobile hardware. Of course, I'm not sure how you would support all of the existing software written for Windows Mobile 6.5 and lower (VM maybe?). Then there's the cost to retool the development pipeline. Sounds complicated, which is why the momentum and excellent development tools that gave Windows Mobile an advantage in the past is likely one of the things holding it back from making the necessary transition away from the WinCE core.

    In any case, it will be a very interesting generation of devices. As a note, I use a Palm Pre as my primary device and despite the somewhat flaky build quality (everything is loose - it feels like it will explode into atoms if I drop it), I love it.

    -Vance
  • Sivan
    The iPhone may indeed be a mobile PC but the trend on full fledged PCs has been clearly moving toward web apps replacing desktop ones.

    Why is this so, and remembering that it was their success that has pushed the browser platform forward and not vice versa? The ease of iteration on the web was originally not because of ease of development, but of deployment.

    App stores and OTA updates have made deployment trivial, whether on the iPhone or the Pre. What's left is the ease of development in a dynamic language and a an army of developers that will have a short ramp up time to start developing for the Pre. If Palm can capitalize on that it has a shot at succeeding.
  • Matt, well researched article that presents a smarting balance of the issues at bay...for $PALM, not having a plethora of apps on their marketplace is more an opportunity than an issue!

    thanks again for the smarting read!
  • mbldev
    Let me first state that I think that the Palm WebOS is extremely innovative and creative. But to compare the Pre to the iPhone is like comparing the success of Tiger Woods to a first year college player. The problem for Palm that they will likely never overcome is that apple and windows mobile has the attention of the development community and they will simply never catch up from an apps standpoint, which is what people seem to want these days. Let's see what happens, but I don't think it looks good for the Pre or any future WebOS phone.
  • Sivan
    The argument that Palm is doomed because of the size of the iPhone market is belied by Apple's history. 10 years ago Apple was in the same position as Palm. Windows had the attention of developers and it was the main argument against Apple.
  • remon
    Absolutely right! It is a logical fallacy that an initial lack of apps relative to the competition means the phone won't succeed, and the iPhone is the best proof of that.

    But it is very important that lots of apps get written for the new machine. And one of the factors that determines how many apps are written for it is how easy it is to develop for it. I think that javascript/html/css is a pretty smart choice. Objective C has a steep learning curve, and the number of apps that crash on startup is a testament to that fact.
  • coolfx35
    Ok so I just realized how much I miss having a custom tone for text messages... I know the standard one is very clean and fits in with the whole theme of the phone very well but with all the customization options on the Pre I can't imagine why the only thing you can select for are phone calls.

    I'm pretty sure if people are vocal enough about such an easy change then Palm will respond fairly quickly.

    http://www.palmpreforum.org This is all about the plam pre
  • Palm has one advantage over Apple: they don't sell laptops or desktops. Apple won't want to cannibalize sales of those items by making the iPhone too powerful. Palm doesn't have that concern. The Pre, and successive iterations of WebOS devices, has the potential to become a true primary computing device as I describe in this blog post: http://www.thegeniusfiles.com/thoughts-on-using...