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	<title>Comments on: Has the Palm Pre already beaten the iPhone?</title>
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	<link>http://digital.venturebeat.com/2009/06/12/has-the-palm-pre-already-beaten-the-iphone/</link>
	<description>News About Tech, Money and Innovation</description>
	<lastBuildDate>Tue, 24 Nov 2009 22:13:15 +0000</lastBuildDate>
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		<title>By: thegeniusfiles</title>
		<link>http://digital.venturebeat.com/2009/06/12/has-the-palm-pre-already-beaten-the-iphone/comment-page-1/#comment-888039</link>
		<dc:creator>thegeniusfiles</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 06 Sep 2009 07:12:23 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://venturebeat.com/?p=108535#comment-888039</guid>
		<description>Palm has one advantage over Apple: they don&#039;t sell laptops or desktops. Apple won&#039;t want to cannibalize sales of those items by making the iPhone too powerful. Palm doesn&#039;t have that concern. The Pre, and successive iterations of WebOS devices, has the potential to become a true primary computing device as I describe in this blog post: &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.thegeniusfiles.com/thoughts-on-using-palm-pre-as-my-primary-comp&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;http://www.thegeniusfiles.com/thoughts-on-using...&lt;/a&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Palm has one advantage over Apple: they don&#39;t sell laptops or desktops. Apple won&#39;t want to cannibalize sales of those items by making the iPhone too powerful. Palm doesn&#39;t have that concern. The Pre, and successive iterations of WebOS devices, has the potential to become a true primary computing device as I describe in this blog post: <a href="http://www.thegeniusfiles.com/thoughts-on-using-palm-pre-as-my-primary-comp" rel="nofollow"></a><a href="http://www.thegeniusfiles.com/thoughts-on-using.." rel="nofollow">http://www.thegeniusfiles.com/thoughts-on-using..</a>.</p>
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		<title>By: coolfx35</title>
		<link>http://digital.venturebeat.com/2009/06/12/has-the-palm-pre-already-beaten-the-iphone/comment-page-1/#comment-867483</link>
		<dc:creator>coolfx35</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 29 Jun 2009 06:20:16 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://venturebeat.com/?p=108535#comment-867483</guid>
		<description>Ok so I just realized how much I miss having a custom tone for text messages... I know the standard one is very clean and fits in with the whole theme of the phone very well but with all the customization options on the Pre I can&#039;t imagine why the only thing you can select for are phone calls.&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;I&#039;m pretty sure if people are vocal enough about such an easy change then Palm will respond fairly quickly.&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;&lt;a href=&quot;http://www.palmpreforum.org&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;http://www.palmpreforum.org&lt;/a&gt;  This is all about the plam pre</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Ok so I just realized how much I miss having a custom tone for text messages&#8230; I know the standard one is very clean and fits in with the whole theme of the phone very well but with all the customization options on the Pre I can&#39;t imagine why the only thing you can select for are phone calls.</p>
<p>I&#39;m pretty sure if people are vocal enough about such an easy change then Palm will respond fairly quickly.</p>
<p><a href="http://www.palmpreforum.org" rel="nofollow">http://www.palmpreforum.org</a>  This is all about the plam pre</p>
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		<title>By: remon</title>
		<link>http://digital.venturebeat.com/2009/06/12/has-the-palm-pre-already-beaten-the-iphone/comment-page-1/#comment-867404</link>
		<dc:creator>remon</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 28 Jun 2009 23:09:14 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://venturebeat.com/?p=108535#comment-867404</guid>
		<description>The Pre is just as much a me-too copy of the iPhone as the iPhone is a me-too copy of Windows Mobile.&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;Think they really are the same?  Try running Pandora while navigating on the iPhone.&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;Or try going back to the contact you last worked with after you looked something up on the web.&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;These aren&#039;t exotic examples of what you might expect to do on a PDA.&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;I&#039;m not trying to knock the iPhone. I think it is a great phone. But Apple has some catching up to do with WebOS. The notification feature of the iPhone is not a very good substitute for running multiple apps concurrently.&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;All of which is to say: The pre is no me-too phone.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The Pre is just as much a me-too copy of the iPhone as the iPhone is a me-too copy of Windows Mobile.</p>
<p>Think they really are the same?  Try running Pandora while navigating on the iPhone.</p>
<p>Or try going back to the contact you last worked with after you looked something up on the web.</p>
<p>These aren&#39;t exotic examples of what you might expect to do on a PDA.</p>
<p>I&#39;m not trying to knock the iPhone. I think it is a great phone. But Apple has some catching up to do with WebOS. The notification feature of the iPhone is not a very good substitute for running multiple apps concurrently.</p>
<p>All of which is to say: The pre is no me-too phone.</p>
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		<title>By: remon</title>
		<link>http://digital.venturebeat.com/2009/06/12/has-the-palm-pre-already-beaten-the-iphone/comment-page-1/#comment-867399</link>
		<dc:creator>remon</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 28 Jun 2009 22:46:43 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://venturebeat.com/?p=108535#comment-867399</guid>
		<description>Absolutely right! It is a logical fallacy that an initial lack of apps relative to the competition means the phone won&#039;t succeed, and the iPhone is the best proof of that.&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;But it is very important that lots of apps get written for the new machine. And one of the factors that determines how many apps are written for it is how easy it is to develop for it. I think that javascript/html/css is a pretty smart choice. Objective C has a steep learning curve, and the number of apps that crash on startup is a testament to that fact.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Absolutely right! It is a logical fallacy that an initial lack of apps relative to the competition means the phone won&#39;t succeed, and the iPhone is the best proof of that.</p>
<p>But it is very important that lots of apps get written for the new machine. And one of the factors that determines how many apps are written for it is how easy it is to develop for it. I think that javascript/html/css is a pretty smart choice. Objective C has a steep learning curve, and the number of apps that crash on startup is a testament to that fact.</p>
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		<title>By: Sivan</title>
		<link>http://digital.venturebeat.com/2009/06/12/has-the-palm-pre-already-beaten-the-iphone/comment-page-1/#comment-867174</link>
		<dc:creator>Sivan</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 28 Jun 2009 01:26:16 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://venturebeat.com/?p=108535#comment-867174</guid>
		<description>The argument that Palm is doomed because of the size of the iPhone market is belied by Apple&#039;s history. 10 years ago Apple was in the same position as Palm. Windows had the attention of developers and it was the main argument against Apple.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The argument that Palm is doomed because of the size of the iPhone market is belied by Apple&#39;s history. 10 years ago Apple was in the same position as Palm. Windows had the attention of developers and it was the main argument against Apple.</p>
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		<title>By: mbldev</title>
		<link>http://digital.venturebeat.com/2009/06/12/has-the-palm-pre-already-beaten-the-iphone/comment-page-1/#comment-867169</link>
		<dc:creator>mbldev</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 28 Jun 2009 00:42:16 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://venturebeat.com/?p=108535#comment-867169</guid>
		<description>Let me first state that I think that the Palm WebOS is extremely innovative and creative.  But to compare the Pre to the iPhone is like comparing the success of Tiger Woods to a first year college player.  The problem for Palm that they will likely never overcome is that apple and windows mobile has the attention of the development community and they will simply never catch up from an apps standpoint, which is what people seem to want these days.  Let&#039;s see what happens, but I don&#039;t think it looks good for the Pre or any future WebOS phone.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Let me first state that I think that the Palm WebOS is extremely innovative and creative.  But to compare the Pre to the iPhone is like comparing the success of Tiger Woods to a first year college player.  The problem for Palm that they will likely never overcome is that apple and windows mobile has the attention of the development community and they will simply never catch up from an apps standpoint, which is what people seem to want these days.  Let&#39;s see what happens, but I don&#39;t think it looks good for the Pre or any future WebOS phone.</p>
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		<title>By: Azam Khan</title>
		<link>http://digital.venturebeat.com/2009/06/12/has-the-palm-pre-already-beaten-the-iphone/comment-page-1/#comment-865425</link>
		<dc:creator>Azam Khan</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 21 Jun 2009 01:31:53 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://venturebeat.com/?p=108535#comment-865425</guid>
		<description>Ok first of all - I see all this talk about &#039;getting lost in the noise&#039;. Well welcome to the real goddamn world. You can&#039;t just build something and expect it to do well. Look at Facebook apps. Do most of them gain such a large distribution just because they are great quality? NO. A tremendous amount of resources are put into distribution. yes, on Facebook distribution is more of a mathematical formula as opposed to in the iPhone world - where word of mouth, marketing and publicity play a bigger role. There are many things one must do. One key area that is lacking is marketing for iPhone apps and that&#039;s really what developers need to focus on building partnerships for. &lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;Remember youtube videos and the techcrunch article where the guy talked about how he made youtube videos go viral and that requires a lot of people posting links on forums and what not to reach a critical mass? So yes, social media and WOM and all that can help spread the word of a product thats truly &lt;br&gt;remarkable (Seth Godin talks a lot about this) but you need to invest money in distribution - and for iphone thats more of an art compared to Facebook which is more of a science. &lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;Also what about platforms such as openfeint within iPhone? that might help eh? Palm will never have the community iPhone will.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Ok first of all &#8211; I see all this talk about &#39;getting lost in the noise&#39;. Well welcome to the real goddamn world. You can&#39;t just build something and expect it to do well. Look at Facebook apps. Do most of them gain such a large distribution just because they are great quality? NO. A tremendous amount of resources are put into distribution. yes, on Facebook distribution is more of a mathematical formula as opposed to in the iPhone world &#8211; where word of mouth, marketing and publicity play a bigger role. There are many things one must do. One key area that is lacking is marketing for iPhone apps and that&#39;s really what developers need to focus on building partnerships for. </p>
<p>Remember youtube videos and the techcrunch article where the guy talked about how he made youtube videos go viral and that requires a lot of people posting links on forums and what not to reach a critical mass? So yes, social media and WOM and all that can help spread the word of a product thats truly <br />remarkable (Seth Godin talks a lot about this) but you need to invest money in distribution &#8211; and for iphone thats more of an art compared to Facebook which is more of a science. </p>
<p>Also what about platforms such as openfeint within iPhone? that might help eh? Palm will never have the community iPhone will.</p>
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		<title>By: Jim Goodlett</title>
		<link>http://digital.venturebeat.com/2009/06/12/has-the-palm-pre-already-beaten-the-iphone/comment-page-1/#comment-863453</link>
		<dc:creator>Jim Goodlett</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 16 Jun 2009 23:07:29 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://venturebeat.com/?p=108535#comment-863453</guid>
		<description>Matt, well researched article that presents a smarting balance of the issues at bay...for $PALM, not having a plethora of apps on their marketplace is more an opportunity than an issue!&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;thanks again for the smarting read!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Matt, well researched article that presents a smarting balance of the issues at bay&#8230;for $PALM, not having a plethora of apps on their marketplace is more an opportunity than an issue!</p>
<p>thanks again for the smarting read!</p>
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		<title>By: Aaron</title>
		<link>http://digital.venturebeat.com/2009/06/12/has-the-palm-pre-already-beaten-the-iphone/comment-page-1/#comment-863241</link>
		<dc:creator>Aaron</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 16 Jun 2009 14:14:40 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://venturebeat.com/?p=108535#comment-863241</guid>
		<description>In other words, the reason for PHP is solely because it is easier to render client pages with it.  It does NOT mean that a phone should be using client technologies as opposed to, say, java or .NET</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>In other words, the reason for PHP is solely because it is easier to render client pages with it.  It does NOT mean that a phone should be using client technologies as opposed to, say, java or .NET</p>
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		<title>By: Aaron</title>
		<link>http://digital.venturebeat.com/2009/06/12/has-the-palm-pre-already-beaten-the-iphone/comment-page-1/#comment-863240</link>
		<dc:creator>Aaron</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 16 Jun 2009 14:13:45 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://venturebeat.com/?p=108535#comment-863240</guid>
		<description>PHP is much more designed for rendering HTML, JS, and CSS.   In other words it ties into (required) client technologies better.  &lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;That being said, I see no reason a new web developer should learn php.  Ruby or python (esp. with a good framework) are much better choices</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>PHP is much more designed for rendering HTML, JS, and CSS.   In other words it ties into (required) client technologies better.  </p>
<p>That being said, I see no reason a new web developer should learn php.  Ruby or python (esp. with a good framework) are much better choices</p>
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		<title>By: Sivan</title>
		<link>http://digital.venturebeat.com/2009/06/12/has-the-palm-pre-already-beaten-the-iphone/comment-page-1/#comment-862975</link>
		<dc:creator>Sivan</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 16 Jun 2009 09:38:31 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://venturebeat.com/?p=108535#comment-862975</guid>
		<description>The iPhone may indeed be a mobile PC but the trend on full fledged PCs has been clearly moving toward web apps replacing desktop ones.&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;Why is this so, and remembering that it was their success that has pushed the browser platform forward and not vice versa? The ease of iteration on the web was originally not because of ease of development, but of deployment.&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;App stores and OTA updates have made deployment trivial, whether on the iPhone or the Pre. What&#039;s left is the ease of development in a dynamic language and a an army of developers that will have a short ramp up time to start developing for the Pre. If Palm can capitalize on that it has a shot at succeeding.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The iPhone may indeed be a mobile PC but the trend on full fledged PCs has been clearly moving toward web apps replacing desktop ones.</p>
<p>Why is this so, and remembering that it was their success that has pushed the browser platform forward and not vice versa? The ease of iteration on the web was originally not because of ease of development, but of deployment.</p>
<p>App stores and OTA updates have made deployment trivial, whether on the iPhone or the Pre. What&#39;s left is the ease of development in a dynamic language and a an army of developers that will have a short ramp up time to start developing for the Pre. If Palm can capitalize on that it has a shot at succeeding.</p>
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		<title>By: Vance Souders</title>
		<link>http://digital.venturebeat.com/2009/06/12/has-the-palm-pre-already-beaten-the-iphone/comment-page-1/#comment-862894</link>
		<dc:creator>Vance Souders</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 16 Jun 2009 08:00:18 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://venturebeat.com/?p=108535#comment-862894</guid>
		<description>Sivan,&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;I really think it&#039;s more about perception and how games and other high end software shift that perception of the device.  I&#039;m already seeing articles like this one:&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;&lt;a href=&quot;http://www.pcmag.com/article2/0%2C2817%2C2348658%2C00.asp&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;http://www.pcmag.com/article2/0,2817,2348658,00...&lt;/a&gt;&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;From the article:&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;&quot;This is not a subtle distinction, either. Apple has evolved the iPhone in ways that we could not have imagined when it came out two years ago. The new OS 3.0 games are 3D in nature and provide a rich game experience similar to that on a PC. Games on other smartphones are weak by comparison.&quot;&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;...&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;&quot;It&#039;s unfair to Palm to ask whether the Pre is an iPhone killer. In fact, even trying to put it in the same class as the iPhone is dooming it to failure. The Pre and others are excellent smartphones, but they&#039;re phones, not PC platforms. &quot;&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;Not good.  They are basically putting the Pre into the toy category while the iPhone gets put into the pocket computer category.  You and I know that both devices have very similar hardware (I believe the CPU and GPU are actually the same or very similar).  &lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;We&#039;re going to see more and more of this chasm between full featured desktop class operating systems running on mobile hardware and everyone else.  Apple clearly has a desktop OS running at the heart of the iPhone.  I don&#039;t know enough about Palm&#039;s WebOS to know where it falls but the media is starting to make the call based on what they see (or don&#039;t see) running on the devices.  As an aside, Microsoft is at a cross-roads with Windows Mobile.  In my opinion, Microsoft really should move away from a seperate code base and put a trimmed down version of Windows 7 on mobile hardware.  Of course, I&#039;m not sure how you would support all of the existing software written for Windows Mobile 6.5 and lower (VM maybe?).  Then there&#039;s the cost to retool the development pipeline.  Sounds complicated, which is why the momentum and excellent development tools that gave Windows Mobile an advantage in the past is likely one of the things holding it back from making the necessary transition away from the WinCE core.&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;In any case, it will be a very interesting generation of devices.  As a note, I use a Palm Pre as my primary device and despite the somewhat flaky build quality (everything is loose - it feels like it will explode into atoms if I drop it), I love it.&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;-Vance</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Sivan,</p>
<p>I really think it&#39;s more about perception and how games and other high end software shift that perception of the device.  I&#39;m already seeing articles like this one:</p>
<p><a href="http://www.pcmag.com/article2/0%2C2817%2C2348658%2C00.asp" rel="nofollow"></a><a href="http://www.pcmag.com/article2/0,2817,2348658,00.." rel="nofollow">http://www.pcmag.com/article2/0,2817,2348658,00..</a>.</p>
<p>From the article:</p>
<p>&#8220;This is not a subtle distinction, either. Apple has evolved the iPhone in ways that we could not have imagined when it came out two years ago. The new OS 3.0 games are 3D in nature and provide a rich game experience similar to that on a PC. Games on other smartphones are weak by comparison.&#8221;</p>
<p>&#8230;</p>
<p>&#8220;It&#39;s unfair to Palm to ask whether the Pre is an iPhone killer. In fact, even trying to put it in the same class as the iPhone is dooming it to failure. The Pre and others are excellent smartphones, but they&#39;re phones, not PC platforms. &#8220;</p>
<p>Not good.  They are basically putting the Pre into the toy category while the iPhone gets put into the pocket computer category.  You and I know that both devices have very similar hardware (I believe the CPU and GPU are actually the same or very similar).  </p>
<p>We&#39;re going to see more and more of this chasm between full featured desktop class operating systems running on mobile hardware and everyone else.  Apple clearly has a desktop OS running at the heart of the iPhone.  I don&#39;t know enough about Palm&#39;s WebOS to know where it falls but the media is starting to make the call based on what they see (or don&#39;t see) running on the devices.  As an aside, Microsoft is at a cross-roads with Windows Mobile.  In my opinion, Microsoft really should move away from a seperate code base and put a trimmed down version of Windows 7 on mobile hardware.  Of course, I&#39;m not sure how you would support all of the existing software written for Windows Mobile 6.5 and lower (VM maybe?).  Then there&#39;s the cost to retool the development pipeline.  Sounds complicated, which is why the momentum and excellent development tools that gave Windows Mobile an advantage in the past is likely one of the things holding it back from making the necessary transition away from the WinCE core.</p>
<p>In any case, it will be a very interesting generation of devices.  As a note, I use a Palm Pre as my primary device and despite the somewhat flaky build quality (everything is loose &#8211; it feels like it will explode into atoms if I drop it), I love it.</p>
<p>-Vance</p>
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		<title>By: Sivan</title>
		<link>http://digital.venturebeat.com/2009/06/12/has-the-palm-pre-already-beaten-the-iphone/comment-page-1/#comment-862356</link>
		<dc:creator>Sivan</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 16 Jun 2009 03:12:05 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://venturebeat.com/?p=108535#comment-862356</guid>
		<description>To the comment about games driving hardware sales: this is an argument that surfaced when PCs were being commoditized a few years ago. By contrast, smartphones can be seen as an extreme form of mobile computing with plenty of innovation ahead to overcome miniaturization, performance and cost challenges.&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;I&#039;ve surveyed the applications I most use on my G1 and could not think of one not suitable for webOS development. The issue of games elludes me as I&#039;m not a gamer, I mostly read and communicate using these devices.&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;I do wonder about networking and graphics programming on webOS but, excluding games and VoIP (which carriers resent), how much is left that&#039;s not possible in mobile applications?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>To the comment about games driving hardware sales: this is an argument that surfaced when PCs were being commoditized a few years ago. By contrast, smartphones can be seen as an extreme form of mobile computing with plenty of innovation ahead to overcome miniaturization, performance and cost challenges.</p>
<p>I&#39;ve surveyed the applications I most use on my G1 and could not think of one not suitable for webOS development. The issue of games elludes me as I&#39;m not a gamer, I mostly read and communicate using these devices.</p>
<p>I do wonder about networking and graphics programming on webOS but, excluding games and VoIP (which carriers resent), how much is left that&#39;s not possible in mobile applications?</p>
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		<title>By: Ryan</title>
		<link>http://digital.venturebeat.com/2009/06/12/has-the-palm-pre-already-beaten-the-iphone/comment-page-1/#comment-862199</link>
		<dc:creator>Ryan</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 16 Jun 2009 02:12:14 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://venturebeat.com/?p=108535#comment-862199</guid>
		<description>Maybe people want to avoid AT&amp;T?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Maybe people want to avoid AT&#038;T?</p>
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		<title>By: Ryan</title>
		<link>http://digital.venturebeat.com/2009/06/12/has-the-palm-pre-already-beaten-the-iphone/comment-page-1/#comment-862185</link>
		<dc:creator>Ryan</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 16 Jun 2009 02:07:44 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://venturebeat.com/?p=108535#comment-862185</guid>
		<description>Why do you think so many people go with PHP over Java for web development?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Why do you think so many people go with PHP over Java for web development?</p>
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